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	<title>Comments on: An open forum for advice on reference letters</title>
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	<description>A blog for academic job seekers - Career Sense helps academics on the job hunt</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 19 Dec 2010 00:05:47 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Andria Bianchi</title>
		<link>http://www.universityaffairs.ca/career-sense/an-open-forum-for-advice-on-reference-letters/comment-page-1/#comment-4338</link>
		<dc:creator>Andria Bianchi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 May 2010 02:29:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.universityaffairs.ca/career-sense/?p=890#comment-4338</guid>
		<description>Hi Carolyn,

I just finished the third year of my undergraduate degree. I am planning on applying to law school next year, and am somewhat concerned about asking my professors for reference letters in September. I was advised to approach professors who gave me an &quot;A&quot; in their class.

Considering I found out which classes I got an &quot;A&quot; in after the school year ended, I was wondering if it would be at all appropriate to e-mail a couple of professors now, rather than waiting until September. I&#039;ve heard that most professors will only write one or two letters each year and I do not want to miss my opportunity by asking too late.

If you can provide me with some advice in regards to this situation, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thank-you,

Andria</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Carolyn,</p>
<p>I just finished the third year of my undergraduate degree. I am planning on applying to law school next year, and am somewhat concerned about asking my professors for reference letters in September. I was advised to approach professors who gave me an &#8220;A&#8221; in their class.</p>
<p>Considering I found out which classes I got an &#8220;A&#8221; in after the school year ended, I was wondering if it would be at all appropriate to e-mail a couple of professors now, rather than waiting until September. I&#8217;ve heard that most professors will only write one or two letters each year and I do not want to miss my opportunity by asking too late.</p>
<p>If you can provide me with some advice in regards to this situation, I would greatly appreciate it.</p>
<p>Thank-you,</p>
<p>Andria</p>
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		<title>By: Carolyn Steele</title>
		<link>http://www.universityaffairs.ca/career-sense/an-open-forum-for-advice-on-reference-letters/comment-page-1/#comment-2194</link>
		<dc:creator>Carolyn Steele</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:33:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.universityaffairs.ca/career-sense/?p=890#comment-2194</guid>
		<description>Elaine - great question! As a Masters student considering a PhD program, I think its safe to assume you have done very well in your classes. This alone will raise your professors&#039; awareness of you. 

It is also a good idea to actively foster a relationship with professors you would consider asking for letters of support by attending their office hours and discussing your research questions and plans with them It doesn&#039;t need to take alot of time, and most profs are delighted to speak with serious students. 

Your profs can also be excellent sources of information about good schools in your field and may even be able to provide introductions to colleagues at prospective schools for you to contact and beging &#039;conversing&#039; with online prior to submitting an application. This will increase your chances of finding a program that is a good fit for your research interests. It can also increase your chances of getting into a program if you can show that you have shared research interests with their faculty. 

If you are serious about applying to a PhD program, it is very important that you make the time to develop relationships with faculty - make it a priority!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elaine &#8211; great question! As a Masters student considering a PhD program, I think its safe to assume you have done very well in your classes. This alone will raise your professors&#8217; awareness of you. </p>
<p>It is also a good idea to actively foster a relationship with professors you would consider asking for letters of support by attending their office hours and discussing your research questions and plans with them It doesn&#8217;t need to take alot of time, and most profs are delighted to speak with serious students. </p>
<p>Your profs can also be excellent sources of information about good schools in your field and may even be able to provide introductions to colleagues at prospective schools for you to contact and beging &#8216;conversing&#8217; with online prior to submitting an application. This will increase your chances of finding a program that is a good fit for your research interests. It can also increase your chances of getting into a program if you can show that you have shared research interests with their faculty. </p>
<p>If you are serious about applying to a PhD program, it is very important that you make the time to develop relationships with faculty &#8211; make it a priority!</p>
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		<title>By: Elaine</title>
		<link>http://www.universityaffairs.ca/career-sense/an-open-forum-for-advice-on-reference-letters/comment-page-1/#comment-2173</link>
		<dc:creator>Elaine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Feb 2010 04:31:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.universityaffairs.ca/career-sense/?p=890#comment-2173</guid>
		<description>Dear sir/madam,

Hello! I am a student in my second year of master degree. I&#039;d like to ask about who to be invited as referee.

As my master degree is a part-time one, most of us only get evening classes once or twice a week. We have different professors for different courses, and some courses even get two professors to share the whole course. As a result, the time of interaction between professors and individual student is very limited. And some classes are very large comprising of more than 50 students, so the professors may not even have chance to recognize any individual student.

So, I&#039;d very much like to ask, in such a case, it is very difficult for me to find a suitable referee to invite. Then, what shall I do?

Thank you for your kind attention.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear sir/madam,</p>
<p>Hello! I am a student in my second year of master degree. I&#8217;d like to ask about who to be invited as referee.</p>
<p>As my master degree is a part-time one, most of us only get evening classes once or twice a week. We have different professors for different courses, and some courses even get two professors to share the whole course. As a result, the time of interaction between professors and individual student is very limited. And some classes are very large comprising of more than 50 students, so the professors may not even have chance to recognize any individual student.</p>
<p>So, I&#8217;d very much like to ask, in such a case, it is very difficult for me to find a suitable referee to invite. Then, what shall I do?</p>
<p>Thank you for your kind attention.</p>
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		<title>By: Count von Letters</title>
		<link>http://www.universityaffairs.ca/career-sense/an-open-forum-for-advice-on-reference-letters/comment-page-1/#comment-2063</link>
		<dc:creator>Count von Letters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 01:03:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.universityaffairs.ca/career-sense/?p=890#comment-2063</guid>
		<description>Provided you are in good terms with your employer, it may be a good idea ti to write a suggested reference letter, containing the information that is most valuable to you, and let the employer edit it. I have done on several occasions, and the employers have actually just recopied my letter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Provided you are in good terms with your employer, it may be a good idea ti to write a suggested reference letter, containing the information that is most valuable to you, and let the employer edit it. I have done on several occasions, and the employers have actually just recopied my letter.</p>
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		<title>By: Carolyn (Career Sense)</title>
		<link>http://www.universityaffairs.ca/career-sense/an-open-forum-for-advice-on-reference-letters/comment-page-1/#comment-2015</link>
		<dc:creator>Carolyn (Career Sense)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:59:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.universityaffairs.ca/career-sense/?p=890#comment-2015</guid>
		<description>Your points are well taken, reference letters are only one element of an application package, but in a tight competition, which is more likely in a market like the current one, small discrepancies may carry more wieght than usual when it comes to differentiating otherwise stellar candidates. 

This point was raised in a recent article in The Chronicle http://chronicle.com/blogPost/Recommendation-Letters/20860/?sid=at&amp;utm_source=at&amp;utm_medium=en

Your idea of the impact the opinions of referees has and at what point they should be introduced into the process is an interesting one. I can see how it might streamline the process for committees, but would it be as beneficial for the applicants I wonder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your points are well taken, reference letters are only one element of an application package, but in a tight competition, which is more likely in a market like the current one, small discrepancies may carry more wieght than usual when it comes to differentiating otherwise stellar candidates. </p>
<p>This point was raised in a recent article in The Chronicle <a href="http://chronicle.com/blogPost/Recommendation-Letters/20860/?sid=at&#038;utm_source=at&#038;utm_medium=en" rel="nofollow">http://chronicle.com/blogPost/Recommendation-Letters/20860/?sid=at&#038;utm_source=at&#038;utm_medium=en</a></p>
<p>Your idea of the impact the opinions of referees has and at what point they should be introduced into the process is an interesting one. I can see how it might streamline the process for committees, but would it be as beneficial for the applicants I wonder.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr.Doinglittle</title>
		<link>http://www.universityaffairs.ca/career-sense/an-open-forum-for-advice-on-reference-letters/comment-page-1/#comment-2014</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr.Doinglittle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 17:26:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.universityaffairs.ca/career-sense/?p=890#comment-2014</guid>
		<description>I personally think that applicants are led to believe that reference letters are far more important that they actually are in hiring decisions.  I appreciate the advice being provided here but articles like this help perpetuate the myth that the perfect reference letter will land you a job.  My experience on hiring committees is that reference letters are really just a formality.  A bad letter can certainly sink an application in some cases, but positive letters - whether glowing or mildly supportive - seem to be given the same value in a person&#039;s overall application package, which is not much.  A person&#039;s CV, research interests, political leaning, teaching record, ethnicity/gender, personality - these are the things that matter in the end, especially once you reach the interview stage.

Also, a bigger issue for many is how to get reference letters at all.  Some faculty will get 5-10 requests for letters from students applying for the same job.  I know some faculty who have a policy of writing 2 letters max for any given job.  This usually means they will only write letters for their own supervised PhD students and everyone else is SOL.  On the other hand, other faculty will write an unlimited number of letters, which can have the effect of watering down the value for all.

I would like to see universities adopt a more standardized and fair way of getting references - one that reflects the reality that many jobs receive well over a hundred applicants, all of whom have to get letters from the same small cadre of faculty. I think it&#039;d be better if contacts for three references would have to be listed on your CV  - these would only by contacted after a shortlist has been created.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I personally think that applicants are led to believe that reference letters are far more important that they actually are in hiring decisions.  I appreciate the advice being provided here but articles like this help perpetuate the myth that the perfect reference letter will land you a job.  My experience on hiring committees is that reference letters are really just a formality.  A bad letter can certainly sink an application in some cases, but positive letters &#8211; whether glowing or mildly supportive &#8211; seem to be given the same value in a person&#8217;s overall application package, which is not much.  A person&#8217;s CV, research interests, political leaning, teaching record, ethnicity/gender, personality &#8211; these are the things that matter in the end, especially once you reach the interview stage.</p>
<p>Also, a bigger issue for many is how to get reference letters at all.  Some faculty will get 5-10 requests for letters from students applying for the same job.  I know some faculty who have a policy of writing 2 letters max for any given job.  This usually means they will only write letters for their own supervised PhD students and everyone else is SOL.  On the other hand, other faculty will write an unlimited number of letters, which can have the effect of watering down the value for all.</p>
<p>I would like to see universities adopt a more standardized and fair way of getting references &#8211; one that reflects the reality that many jobs receive well over a hundred applicants, all of whom have to get letters from the same small cadre of faculty. I think it&#8217;d be better if contacts for three references would have to be listed on your CV  &#8211; these would only by contacted after a shortlist has been created.</p>
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